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Rubbish left on the Hills
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Well i think thats the rubbish issue sorted

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Think I'm too scared to go back up there now! Can someone give me a cuddle Rose


Wayne.

Did I tell you about the time I blanked? Oh yeah, that's most trips.

www.flickr.com/photos/waynewillday
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Friends

Hows that?

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hi lads bit dissapointed to hear about the mess on the hills me and my freind take are rubbish with us as we would anywere, but lets be honest moaning about hi vis jackets and flags. It was me who had a hi vis jacket on and it was me and a freind, who a couple of weeks ago who asked a farmer for directions and was very polite and well mannered with him, and to be honest what a d!!k he was he had no manners, dosent cost anything to be nice. fully agree with what people are saying (be responsible keep the place tidy) hi vis jackets and flags thats just being tedious i liked the jacket thats why i bought it didint think it would annoy anyone and the flags thats just showing support. Say if you think im wrong but i honestly dont think i am
Thanks Melvyn  Unknown


Not enough hours in the day for this hobbie.
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PeteFletch wrote:
Friends

Hows that?


Thanks Pete, that's better!


Wayne.

Did I tell you about the time I blanked? Oh yeah, that's most trips.

www.flickr.com/photos/waynewillday
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Hi,
   I wasnt referring to high viz jackets in the recent past. Im talking about a certain few incidents that happened a few years ago, where there where people flying everything but their knickers off the hills to attract pilots, including huge flags, probably 20ft across!! What I am getting at is the fact that the locals who are anti-low flying are looking for excuses to keep the ball rolling and we shouldnt entice them. They dont see a flag as supporting the Air Force , they see it as trying to attract the pilots attention. Ive done it myself on occasion. This debate goes back a long time, not just the past few months. If you want clarity on the issue talk to Meirion or Mike or Keith.

Ive been staying in Dinas for 6 years now during my visits and I hear everything thats said, for, and against the low flying. I know for a fact that some people think "We" attract the pilots. Its taken me years to explain to, my now friends, that this is not the case, but not everyone is my friend.

I am aircrew myself and I know that a few years ago a group of RAF lads went to the loop for a week and put the word out to the Sqns to come by. It didnt happen, because the "Fun Police" got wind of it and the place died a death bar for a few Valley hawks. Im sure some of you remember this.Thats how easy the balance can be tipped against us.

Look, at the end of the day, Im giving advice not moaning. I'd love to see F-15's and Tonkas screaming past all day every day, I dont care if the Bwlch is draped in a union jack from one end to the other. Im just saying with the amount of people going to the loop we might want to be a little more reserved and not let the whole 20ft flag circus act take over!!

This of course is my opinion, and nobody has to listen!

Cheers,
             Pat.

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Taken from another forum:

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I've heard a rumour from a good source (I'm trying to get it confirmed) that pressure is going to be put on the land owners at Corris and Cad to 'discourage' us from using their land through bodies like the FUW.


Dont say I didnt warn you!!

Pat.

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The right of access to most of the land we use is set out in the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (the 'CROW' act). This gives the public a legal right to roam over that land without sticking to paths. The CROW Act places a number of obligations on both the landowner and public. There are other obligations of course, but the most relevant to our situation are :

The landowner must :
    1. Allow access to his land, unless he has been granted a statutory restriction by the relevant authority.
    2. Make reasonable adjustments to allow access to his land (e.g. install stiles and gates etc), and there are grants available to cover the cost of these adjustments.
    3. Not display any sign which suggests access is restricted (to do so is an offence under section 14 of the act).
Therefore it would be difficult for a landowner to legally Implication discourage Implication use of his open access land, although we all know that they could make it more difficult for us quite easily.

The public must :
    1. Not drop litter !
    2. Not light fires
    3. Between March 1st and 31st July, and at all times in the presence of livestock, keep dogs on a lead no more than 2m in length. A farmer has the right to destroy a dog which worries his livestock!


Although I cannot find any specific guidance re the display of flags, there is guidance on the displaying of signs on public access land. In general the display of unnecessary signs is discouraged, as they spoil the beauty of the land. It would seem the best course of action is not to display flags.

Of course these rights are pretty irrelevant if the relationship between the landowner and users breaks down, and we must try to maintain a good relationship (by not blocking gates in car parks etc), as although we could enforce our right of access, who wants to go down that route?

If we follow the countryside code, treat the farmer's land in the way we would wish others to treat our land, and follow the old adage of 'Leave only footprints and take only photographs' we should be OK.

I am a smoker and I'll admit I drop my butts on the ground, however at the end of the day I go around and pick them up and take them with me. I suppose the problem there is I could miss one or two, so in future I'll not drop them on the floor, but put them away straight away! Even better I'll have another go at giving up!

If I see others dropping litter I'll politely ask them to pick it up and take it with them, and if I see litter where there is no obvious culprit, I do, and will continue to pick it up and take it with me.

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Cheers for that Pete. Good info there. Im not trying to open up a can of whoop-ass here, just genuinely worried that some farmer will get peed off and start, as you say, making it more difficult for us!!

Rob and Me chatted to the farmer who owns Pheasant Hill last year and he was a nice chap and as he said at the end of the day sure you have the right to roam, and we laughed as it was said "yeh, but not the right to stand still for 9 hours"! He says he'd no problem with 2 or 3 people standing there as long as they keep the place tidy. I inadvertantly parked in a small layby seemingly of no use to anyone and got told to move by the farmer because its a parking spot for the ambulance that brings his mother to the clinic!! DOH!! I was mortified!! He was cool about it because he realised I genuinely didnt know the situation but it could have been a lot different.

Watching and photographing low level military aircraft is my passion and I fly around at low level myself in my job so I cant get enough of it. So I hope you guys can see why I am concerned. I want to show the world what great pilots and crews the RAF have, it wouldnt bother me if 20 of us stood all day on a hill , as we do, and have great craic. Sure theres times Im sure when Meirion wishes I'd shut up telling stories and jokes  Drinks or Beer
Im just afraid its going to go belly-up, not out of someone being malicious or stupid but that somebody will take offence to us being there and start a "War" so to speak.

I think now myself that Ive said enough on the subject.  I didnt mean for my comments to be taken as "moaning" or "giving out". I was commenting on the hobby as a whole and how it has evolved from a handfull of people to maybe a hundred around the loop at times. We should police ourselves as such, not that anybody goes out of their way to do any wrong, but we should watch each others backs, like advising on parking, litter, local knowledge etc.

Anyhoo,

             I'll shut up (did I hear a collective sigh there??  Clapping  )

Pat.



Last edited by Machlooper on Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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CROW Access maps

http://www.ccw.gov.uk/enjoying-the-country/countryside-access-map.aspx

http://www.openaccess.naturalengland.org.uk/wps/portal/oasys/maps/MapSearch/

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There where two guys on the exit last month who seen the Loop on the net and took a chance and drove to Wales to find it. They didnt know where to climb up so they popped into a farm to ask the farmer, the fukin owner of Hill15 !!!!!!!!!! He just told them he didnt know!! Lucky them!!  

Pat if i'd have known who he was i'd not have asked him, apologies if this stirred a hornets nest with the locals

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Im not trying to say this was my hobby for 8 yrs now F@#k off back to trainspotting or Eddie Stobart spotting, indeed Im 3rd generation Loop spotter

They're all the same just different shutter speeds Yahoo!

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I was commenting on the hobby as a whole and how it has evolved from a handfull of people to maybe a hundred around the loop at times.

I think Pat this is where the internet is going to kill this hobby, personally these site's (ot just this one) should be private with invites only and not public sites with the maps telling everyone where to go cos every tom dick and harry are going to turn up. I do agree with you about some kind of policing to keep the numbers on the hills down and to keep the locals sweet but not sure about how this could be done.

No offence meant in this reply btw

Ian

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Well as stated before this thread was about rubbish, i think its fair to say we've covered that.  Drinks or Beer

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lozza wrote:
Well as stated before this thread was about rubbish, i think its fair to say we've covered that.  Drinks or Beer


Can we also remember that the idea behind this forum was for the enjoyment of Aviation and photograghy, and not to decide who has and who has'nt got the right to go on a hill even if you been going for 10 years or ten days. With regard to Fox2 being a private forum with invites only that never was or will be the intention. After all what gives us the right to decide who can and cannot participate in this hobby, the same can be said for policing the hills it can't be done.

I think as long as we show respect firstly to the farmer by not parking in inappropriate places, closing gates, keeping MJ/dogs away from sheep and PICKING UP litter and fag ends then things should be fine.

Finally lets make the most of what we got whilst we got it, few more years it'll be just team Grob the way things are going

lozza

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Well I think we all need a drink after this thread lol now the rubbish issue is sorted
I agree with everything that's been said well almost I think what ian said regards
Advertising this joyfull hobbie on the net I agree with him as we will turn this fun
Into a sport soon lol so think maybe there's a few to many site letting people no were
To go. Or it could just be misserable old sh!!s trying to kill what we all love lowlevel
Anyway I appreciate what you said pat so sorry if I come across a bit arsey.
Think we should all do are best and stick together and keep the birds alive


Not enough hours in the day for this hobbie.
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Nice to see everyone having their say.

I think we all know what to do with regard to rubbish on the hills from now on. As far as if's, but's and maybe's regarding the future of hill life, well I'm affraid its a case of suck it and see, nothing lasts forever at the end of the day so lets make the most of it while its here. Fox2 was never created for an elite group, its a place for all types of aviation photography for both members and non members to view and enjoy.

TTFN,

Mark Good

P.S. Look on the bright side, there will always be sheep.


Mark

www.mjaviation.co.uk
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